Beyond the commodification of female sexuality
I recently read Lipstick and Ligature’s post on The Problem with Kink and it made a few things click for me that I want to explore here. Most importantly, she said this:
I was told by certain sources that “oh, you’re a dominant woman?! Congratulations, now you can become a pro-domme and earn money off your sexuality like women are supposed to do. Because, hey? What kind of woman actually wants to enjoy sexual pleasure with a submissive man anyway.
This reaction to finding out that a woman is sexually dominant is not uncommon. It’s happened to me multiple times, and Dishevelled Domina has talked about it as well. It’s always at least somewhat irritating – not because it’s such a bad thing to be a pro, but because it belies the thought that if a woman is dominating a man she needs to get something in return. When someone suggests I go pro they don’t think about the unadulterated pleasure I take in getting exactly what I want. They often don’t understand sadistic joy (or perhaps just don’t associate it with women). They don’t get how much I love the sight of a beautiful strong creature bound and at my mercy. They just think, “What’s in it for her?”
However, I don’t want to judge these questioners too harshly. I myself have fallen into a similar trap before. I have, on occasion, had a one-night stand. All I wanted was sex. One particular instance I got it (and it was great), but we never saw each other again. I couldn’t help feeling slightly used despite the fact that I was using him as much as he was using me. I felt like I should get something in return for our night of bliss; not money, but some sort of ongoing relationship of the fuck-buddy variety. Luckily I soon realized that great sex is enough when that’s all you’re really looking for and got over it.
Even women who are pretty accepting of themselves as sexual beings (like myself) occasionally expect something in return for a sexual experience in order for them to make them feel better about themselves. Passionate sex with a near-stranger doesn’t feel quite as dirty after you’ve had dinner with him. I think this is because it gives us an excuse. “Well, I’m not really a slut, it was just a really good dinner”. This could ultimately come down to extrinsic versus intrinsic motivation.
In a classic experiment, participants were instructed to work on an interesting puzzle. Some participants were paid, while others were not. Those who were not rewarded continued to play with the puzzle during a “free period”, while paid participants did not (Deci, 1975). In another experiment (for which I could not find a citation, my apologies) actually found that people enjoy a boring task more when they are paid $1 to do it than when they are paid $20 to do it. Money and other types of external rewards act as extrinsic motivation, while pure enjoyment acts as intrinsic motivation. Furthermore, when we receive very little to no reward for something that wasn’t very interesting we think that we must have enjoyed it because why else were we doing it for such little compensation (this phenomenon is known as cognitive dissonance). Conversely, if we are paid for something we do enjoy, we begin to enjoy it less because we think we must be doing it for the money (see Deci, Koestner and Ryan, 1999 for a meta-analysis).
Women often receive pre-emptive external rewards for having sex. Whether it’s flowers, drinks, dinner, or even a diamond ring, women are often ‘paid’ in some way for sex. This could lead to actually enjoying sexual interactions less because of an underlying feeling of having been compensated. Commitment can also act as a form of compensation. When I was a teenager I kept track of how many people I’d kissed, how many people had touched my breasts, etc. I wanted this number to be as small as possible because of various cultural influences – my church probably being the strongest. If I kissed someone, it had to be ‘worth it’. I almost always expected a commitment in return. I couldn’t just give my kisses away to anyone who wasn’t willing to foot the bill of being with me for an extended period of time. This kind of thinking is harmful, and as my one-night stand experience shows, still effects me today. In fact, I’ve still only ever been vaginally penetrated by men with whom I have had long-term relationships. Oral sex I’ve learned to give away as freely as I want, but vaginal penetration is still emotionally loaded.
Ultimately I think a lot of people find the idea of women enjoying sex for the sake of sex to be a scary prospect. I’m not quite sure why that is. For myself I used to treasure a self-image that was purely good and wholesome. Being a living breathing sexual being seemed to tarnish that. In relationships I’ve gotten to a place where it feels wholesome to be a pair of sexually satisfied individuals who are crazy about each other. Outside of relationships it’s a little harder.
For men the idea of a woman enjoying sex for the sake of sex seems initially like a dream come true, but I think this idea scares a lot of men too. I can think of a few reasons why this might be. When a woman loves sex she can become insatiable. This could create a fear that her partner might literally not be able to satisfy her. And indeed, I’ve been with men who just weren’t willing to have sexathons with me. This makes it hard for me to go back to vanilla or even dominant men. Dictating exactly how our sex happens means that I can also dictate exactly how long our sex happens, and I like it that way.
To bring this discussion back to female domination, a woman with whips and rope is scary enough. A woman with whips, rope, and intrinsic enjoyment? Terrifying. In mainstream media dominant women are almost always professionals (and submissive men are almost always sniveling worms, but that’s another topic for another day), and I think this is because it’s more comforting that way. Why would a woman do that? Ah of course, because she’s gettin’ paid the big bucks.
But women who enjoy dominating men do exist (as do women who enjoy dominating women and non-binary peeps). When you get to know us we’re not that scary. Sure, we might laugh at pain sometimes and might enjoy the thought of our partner tightly bound and wriggling to get free, but we live pretty normal lives. We work and/or raise kids. There’s still a give and take in our relationships. Ideally we find partners who love our our joyful torture as much as we relish administering it. And when you ask us, “Why don’t you try pro-domming?” we will say, “Why would I want to get paid for something that’s so much fun to do for free?”
Introducing Edward
I’ve been away for a while. Mostly, I think, it’s been hard for me to talk about kink and domination without referencing my current boyfriend at all. Now that it’s been several months since my breakup with FT, I think I will end that ban. I will call my boyfriend Edward. I want to preface this introduction to him by saying that he has not replaced FT. FT was my first submissive. There will always be a special place for him in my heart. He will always have a piece of me, and I will always treasure my piece of him. But life moves on and my dark interests persist. I’ve fallen in love with Edward (and still love FT). I hope that FT too can find happiness in someone who lives closer to him.
Edward and I have been living together for the past four months or so, so as you might imagine, my thoughts on D/s are rather tied up in him (no pun intended). We have a 24/7 relationship. Starting in November, we drew up a slave contract and I collared him. It’s not a permanent collar, but it’s nearly impossible for him to take off on his own. For the moment we renew this contract on a month-by-month basis so that we can discuss any amendments we’d like to make after experiencing what the rules feel like. At first the arrangement felt a little formal, but now we’re more settled and he has a better sense of how to discuss things so that he’s heard, but still leaves final decisions in my hands.
I’ll tell you a bit about our daily life because this was always something that I wanted to know when I was curious about 24/7 dynamics. When we wake he makes us breakfast and shaves his face (to make it smooth for me) as I doze. He has to ask permission to get on any furniture, so when he gets back he has to ask to get back on the bed. Usually I allow it, but sometimes I have him sit on the floor next to me. We have breakfast, and then usually play in some form or another. We then shower and get ready to go to our respective workplaces. Before we go he puts my shoes on me, kisses my feet, and kneels in front of me until I tell him to stand. Then we’re off to work. We generally go home together when our work days are complete, and go through the shoe ritual in reverse. He takes my shoes off, kisses my feet, kneels and waits for his cue to stand. After that he has to get me water and strip naked. We go about our evening leisure activities with him on the floor and me on the furniture. Each night he has a short exercise routine that he has to go through to keep himself fit and healthy for me. Sometimes I join him, sometimes I just watch.
We try to have a bondage movie night about once a week. He loves getting tied up because he’s slightly claustrophobic and loves riding that edge. I’m not that awesome at rope bondage yet, but I’m learning! I like how pretty he looks in it and the mental effects it has on him, but dislike how much time it takes.When I’m being lazy and want a similar effect I throw him in a straightjacket and blindfold.
Edward is not allowed to say no. As discussed in Domme Chronicles, saying no would essentially mean that he didn’t want to be my slave anymore. Occasionally he will express reluctance in one form or another, but a firm stare is usually enough to remind him of his place. Rarely, he has a legitimate reason why he can’t do something or has to stop doing something. For example, in our rules is the stipulation that our activities cannot interfere with his work. So if I were to order him to go to work in lingerie and nothing else, for example, he would have every right to say, “Sir, I can’t do that”. Really, that would be a violation of the contract on my part and would cause him distress because he doesn’t like denying me.
He is a treasured object. He makes my life better by being in it. He suffers beautifully, he obeys dutifully, he delights in my pleasure. I am proud to be his owner.
Call me Sir
I have been grappling with gender for awhile now. You’ve caught glimpses of it, but I want to address it straight on. I don’t know what to call myself, and am ok with that for now. I sometimes feel like a gay man in a woman’s body, except that I love women and my womanly body too. I’m mostly ok with being female. I’ve always loved my breasts and have been developing a love of my cunt since I was 16 or so. However, I also often wish I could have a cock. I fuck men in the ass with strap-ons and wish it was more me. But it’s more than that.
When I was little I wanted to be Zorro and Robin Hood. Daring, handsome, an excellent swordsman. When I was 15 and realised I was in love with a woman, along with that came this relief that I didn’t have to be so feminine anymore. I started experimenting with the way I dressed (which caused my father to say to me that I should be careful, he wouldn’t want people getting the impression that I was a dyke). I enjoyed taking an active role in seducing my girlfriend, when I had been taught that I should be passive and coy. I was cast as a man in a few plays in school and enjoyed taking full advantage of the costume closet and stage makeup to transform myself.
When I’ve dated men, I’ve always used my bisexuality as an excuse to be gallant, buy them flowers, lead them around by the small of their backs. They’ve always humoured me at least. I’ve always been drawn to feminine men and all sorts of women. I’ve realised that pansexual might be a better descriptor for me as it more fully encompasses the spectrum of people to whom I’m attracted.
Recently I’ve been shedding my gender. It’s something I don’t see much use for. It doesn’t define who I am, what I like, who I’m attracted to. I don’t want to let it dictate how I dominate. There are certain labels I am comfortable identifying with: sadist, masochist, top, bottom, dominant. Female? Genderqueer? Transvestite? Drag king? Not so sure. This causes problems when it comes to honorifics. Some people avoid them generally, but I like them within the context of a relationship (i. e. I don’t think everyone should address me with an honorific just because I am dom, hear me roar). For awhile I went with the standard Mistress, but it never felt quite right.
Then I tried Sir, and it just hit the spot. It evokes the same feelings of power and possession, but also feels like a caress at some deep secret part of me that’s been aching to get out for quite some time. Once on a plane a male flight attendant called me Sir at first and then corrected himself. It made my trip much better. I don’t feel that people are wrong when they address me with female pronouns, but I thoroughly enjoy it when I am read as male.
This is no declaration of my new identity, just a statement of where I am. I will continue to play with gender and see where it takes me. I will dress up as a man and as a woman. I will dress my lovers in stockings, lace, shirts, suspenders, hats, argyle socks. I will be the penetrator and the penetrated. I will look down at my cock and wish it had nerve endings. I will look at myself in the mirror and think I’m beautiful just the way I am.
D/s and Polyamoury: Incompatible or merely strange bedfellows?
I consider myself to be polyamorous. I’ve actually had open relationships for the most part since I started having sex. However, I’ve never successfully been in two concurrent love-type relationships. There have been a few times when I’ve dated two or three people simultaneously and cared a great deal about all of them, but I’ve only had a maximum of one person at a time to whom I say “I love you”. Being poly isn’t easy. I’m not one of these fortunate people who was born without a jealous bone in their body. I’ve always been quite confident about what I mean to my loves, but I still get a dull ache sometimes when I think of them with others, particularly others I don’t know well.
This causes some interesting quirks when working towards ownership. I enjoy a rather intense style of domination. I like the idea of having a 24/7 relationship. I would like, eventually, to own someone; I’d like to have a slave. This is antithetical to the polyamorous ideal that people are not possessions. It’s one thing to think of a submissive and I choosing a third partner together, but the idea of them independently finding and dating another that I don’t know or necessarily like poses a problem when everything is supposed to go my way (and their way through my consideration of our needs and wants). This is rather selfish, but when FT was in love with someone I’d never met before it made him feel less mine. I don’t know what to do with that.
You can always do the, “we only date people once our mate approves of them” or “my primary partner has veto power”. But that just seems unrealistic for several reasons: a) poly people often come with other lovers who they already care a great deal about; b) telling a person who treasures freedom, “no, you can’t have them” often causes them to fixate on said person; and c) limiting who my partner can and cannot date feels like a betrayal of my poly sensibilities.
So how do you give freedom and enslavement simultaneously? I think ultimately it comes down to different layers of the relationship. First you’re friends, then lovers, then partners, then Dom(me)/sub. All the other layers have to be functioning for the exterior layer to work. Poly is more on the partner level (or boyfriend/girlfriend, but I wanted something more gender neutral). The Dom(me) can’t force a relationship style on the submissive. That’s the kind of thing that has to be agreed upon and consented to, and can ruin a relationship if both parties are not honest about their wants and needs with regards to it.
The only problem with this is that it can tamper with the suspension of disbelief. Living a 24/7 relationship is allowing a fantasy to become, for the most part, a reality. However, the reality has to come before the fantasy in importance. This does not take away one’s love of the fantasy though, and reminders that ultimately both individuals are equal can be somewhat annoying. So what do you do? Well, the Dom(me) learning to feel compersion would certainly help, so that they would actually enjoy the sub’s being with others rather than merely tolerating it. Alternatively both parties could be limited to dating others as a couple. Or you can have an unequal arrangement that the sub is actually happy with: cuckold fetishists, for example, wouldn’t mind a totally unequal arrangement, but it’s not unequal in that they are still thoroughly enjoying it.
What kind of arrangements have you all come up with? Enjoyed? Hated? Do you experience compersion? Did it happen automatically or did it take some sort of practice?
Note to TYT: Strap-on sex does not make a man gay
So, I generally enjoy watching The Young Turks. They provide an independent source of news coverage from a progressive viewpoint, without taking themselves too seriously. However, they seriously drop the ball sometimes when it comes to sex-positivity. To be fair, they correctly didn’t think that Anthony Wiener should resign over his sex texts, they covered the slut walks in a positive light, and they even covered Rachel Rabbit White’s Lady Porn Day. But they are a bit sloppy when it comes to stories that aren’t as widely talked about in the sex-positive blogosphere.
Recently they made me mad because they messed with my men. They perpetuated the myth that any man who likes being fucked with a strap-on must be gay. Now, they don’t come right out and say this, but it is strongly implied by multiple comments made by the male members of the news team. It irks me that even a network that claims to be rebelling against authority and/or societal expectations still comes out with this bullshit.
Now, obviously there’s nothing wrong with being gay, so guys shouldn’t be so worried that they might have a touch of the bi in any case. However, a guy can enjoy anal pleasure without being attracted to men. There’s such a thing as the prostate which makes receptive anal sex highly arousing for most men.
Dan Savage has dealt with this issue many times, and the way he responds is always great. For example, in one week’s column where he dealt with several instances of gay panic he responded to one reader by saying:
Lots of straight guys enjoy having their asses touched; some even enjoy having their asses pegged. If this guy ate your pussy like a champ and fucked you absolutely senseless before, during, and after you touched his ass, all signs point to straight. If he seemed reluctant to fuck you, ignored your tits, and screamed, “Yes, Rufus! Harder, Rufus! Deeper, Rufus!” when you touched his ass, well, then he’s probably a big ol’ HOMO. If he leans toward straight, HAG, stop ignoring him.
Some men like it when women plunge dildos into their asses. That doesn’t make them gay. Some women like it when women plunge dildos into their cunts. That doesn’t make them straight. I enjoy ass-fucking men. It’s been a fantasy of mine since I started having fantasies. Please don’t discourage the men who don’t ascribe to the double standard of “I want to fuck you in the ass, but mine is off limits”. Don’t make it harder for men who are open minded and sexually adventurous. Leave my men alone.
Kink and religion (IV): What are your current thoughts about religion?
What are your current thoughts about religion?
Dev:
My current state could probably best be described as agnostic. I don’t really believe in God anymore, but neither can I prove the non-existence of God. I don’t attend church anymore; however, last year I would go to a Unitarian Universalist meeting most Sundays and I enjoyed that. It’s kind of an all-inclusive spiritual community type of thing. I found comfort in it. It’s nice to have a group of people of all different ages that care about you and keep you thinking about how you can contribute to the world and the lives of others.
I haven’t found a Unitarian Universalist group in my new place. It was still a bit too spiritually oriented. I like to work mostly with facts these days, and I’m learning that facts can be beautiful too. I appreciate Buddhist teachings and meditate when I’m having some difficulties in life. Being able to identify what is causing suffering in your life and how to end that suffering is a vital skill. The ten commandments have been replaced with the question, ‘How can I cause the least amount of suffering for myself and those around me in the long run?’
I still have some sore spots with regards to Christianity. For years it made me feel like I couldn’t be myself and be a faithful servant to my creator. That’s incredibly difficult. I recognize that Christianity has useful moral lessons embedded in the New Testament. When I was in my liberal Christianity phase I used to harp on the way that Jesus criticized the Pharisees, the sect that emphasized Jewish law, and that current fundamentalist Christians have a lot in common with this group. However, the more educated I became, the more it didn’t make sense to cling to my faith. I realized how much I’d been indoctrinated, how I’d been taught to shut off my brain and repeat a spoon-fed argument that I had learned. I could still give them to you if asked.
If there is a loving God, then I’m sure he still loves me too. If there isn’t a God, which I find much more likely, then we should all live our lives the best we can – treating ourselves and others with dignity, respect, and kindness.
What are your current thoughts about religion?
tomio:
I am currently a member of the Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Newark (NJ). I began looking around several years ago for a spiritual home, and found a church that was “open and affirming” (meaning that they accept openly gay people for full inclusion). The Episcopal Church was the first mainstream Christian denomination to ordain a female priest and the first to ordain an openly gay Bishop.
The Episcopal Church stresses the blessing of diversity, and I believe this would also extend to BDSM relationships. If I am how God made me (or how my experiences made me); and if God is kind and loving; then why would he not want me to be in a fulfilling relationship? The over-riding message of the New Testament is “Love one another as I have loved you.” How could a God of love look at a relationship between loving adults and not see it as a good thing?
There is no official church policy on BDSM relationships…as far as I know. But the Anglican communion stresses the triad of scripture, church history, and personal experience and understanding as a guide towards following God’s direction. In short, God gave us a brain and intends for us to use it. If the legalistic dogma of five thousand years ago does not work for today’s world, it is okay to say so and act accordingly (so…we no longer tell women they must sit outside of town when menstruating, for example). So we, as believers and members of the church, are completely attuned with the teachings of our church when we question existing dogma and force it to evolve to fit an ever-changing world.
I do not believe in an interventionary God…that is, I don’t believe that God intervenes in the events of history. I don’t know why he doesn’t – there’s enough reason to destroy us all for our contribution to general oppression and destruction of the earth – but I’m thankful that I continue to exist. But there have been a few times in my life when I have felt connected to the universe beyond the simple five senses that guide my day. Some simply feel this is understanding a sense of one’s self in the universe…but to me, it is a touch of the Divine.
Religion, in general, has caused much pain and suffering, and it is the chief apparent motivation for too much of the world’s strife. I stress the word “apparent” because, even if all religion were snuffed from the earth, we would still fight amongst ourselves. Religion serves, too often, as a veneer over our baser selves and allows a broad justification for all manner of oppression. But religion also motivated Ghandi and Mother Theresa and Martin Luther King, Jr. Like all belief systems, it can be horribly twisted. And, like all belief systems, once someone believes, it can be used to lead them around by the nose to do things they would otherwise find horrible. But it isn’t as if bare political ideologies are any better.
The problem with religion is that it binds people’s minds to believe there is only one right way. I think that is mentally and spiritually lazy, though. It is a paradox of my belief that one must be tolerant of everything save intolerance. I may disagree with a person’s beliefs, but I will defend to my death their right to cling to that belief…so long as that belief is not teaching hatred and violence towards others. I think that the current resurgence of uber-conservative religions worldwide stems from a common thread of religious ignorance. Most people who thump the bible, for instance, have never read it.
I could easily extend this discussion to include political philosophies and ideologies, as well. In the end, religion is simply a method for practicing an ideology…so it is really the same discussion anyway. I get frustrated when I hear people say that religion should not be discussed in the public sphere – of course it should! It should be subjected to the same level of debate as any other idea. But we will never get people to be honest about their actions if we tell them they cannot share the beliefs that are the roots of those actions.
What are your current thoughts about religion?
DD:
I’ve tried atheism; it doesn’t work for me. I researched a variety of approaches before ending up where I am now. My family belongs to a nearby non-denominational church that is very active in supporting the local community (food bank, free clinic, work projects). It is important to me that our church be more focused on social justice than pressuring people to comply with social norms and my personal beliefs fall somewhere in the area of liberal Christian theology.
Regarding more general thoughts on religion… You can choose anyone from the “Religious Right” as an example of what I believe is wrong with contemporary American Christianity, but they are not the whole story. In his book The Cube and the Cathedral; Europe, America, and Politics without God, author George Weigel argues that Christianity has been and continues to be primarily a force for good in the world. It is very popular today to condemn any and all faith out of hand and Christianity specifically but I believe that ignores some invaluable contributions. I think religion, as with politics, is merely another realm in which the beauty and ugliness of the human creature plays out. Humanity manages to be vicious even without theology to blame.
People using religion to control or justify hate is a real hot button for me, so I attend a church where the focus is on loving and helping others. There is some evidence that this participation in church is good for my health and my community. We all have to figure out what works for us, and this is what works for me.
John:
Religion is an interesting word. You can actually take spirituality right out of the definition…Mirriam-Webster does. Their definition that I identify with is this:
A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
This leads to dogma which can be defined as:
something held as an established opinion; especially a definite authoritative tenet.
When you couple these two you get all sorts of interesting things.
You can have a liberal political dogma. “Government programs will save us all and if you disagree you are amoral.”
You can have a conservative political dogma. “Cut programs, especially for the poor, and cut taxes, especially for the rich.”
You can have an ultra-conservative political and religious dogma. “Praise Jesus and pass the ammo.”
Then you can have religious dogma. Just take a look at Ireland for a good example of Christian dogma/religion. Look at Iraq and the Sunni and Shiite for some good Muslim dogma/religion.
Everything I just mentioned is held is a religion, most people equate religion with God but you don’t need God for religion. Since most people equate God, religion and church, let’s deal with that particular case. If you take away the “Religion” of the Church and re-read the new testament with an eye toward what Jesus and his followers did.
They healed the sick, fed the hungry, and met the needs of the people around them. They served and gave of themselves.
I guess I am saying that I think most Religion is a crock for like-minded people to circle the wagons and try to keep anyone that is different out unless those different people try really hard to be like them.
So for me the question, What Would Jesus Do is not one to be mocked. What would he do? He’d volunteer at the AIDS hospice with compassion not condemnation. He would share his meal with the homeless person. That’s what religion should be.
Kink and religion (III): How do you think your early religious experiences influenced your kink?
How do you think your early religious experiences influenced your kink?
Dev:
In some ways it was the questioning of what I had been taught about sexuality that led me to kink. I realised that it wasn’t wrong to fall in love with a person just because they are of the same sex, and that made me wonder what else I had been taught would turn out to be wrong. This left me a lot more open-minded about uncommon sexual practices.
Specifically…I think I do probably enjoy Domming more because of what I’ve been through. It feels like conquering previous parts of myself. For example, when I was 14 I really wanted to french-kiss my then-boyfriend. But I couldn’t bring myself to even hint that this might be what I wanted. It had to be all his idea. I feel victorious in my ability to sexually aggress.
I don’t think religion gave me any specific kinks. My past just adds a bit of a transgressive charge to my kink life.
How do you think your early religious experiences influenced your kink?
John:
I don’t think my religion influenced the kink. I remember from a very early age being fascinated with different things you could do to your man bits and experimenting with that. Then I think religion may have suppressed it for a while. Growing up in a church..well, you know. Good church-going people don’t have those kinds of thoughts… god forbid. Christianity will turn you into a eunuch, until you get married, then sex is OK.
How do you think your early religious experiences influenced your kink?
DD:
Since I got married young and started exploring kink within my marriage~ being into femdom at 19 didn’t cause any particular problems for me. It certainly startled my more conservative friends if I ever hinted at it in conversation. Somehow a lot of these gals weren’t sure they were supposed to even like sex, never mind being enthusiastic about it or OMG, take charge!
I read about BDSM extensively but because I grew up listening to people telling me how I was supposed to do things and I learned how to sort what I valued from the rest of their nonsense, I felt free to pick and choose what I liked out of the kink basket as well. Tom Allen has mentioned that fundamentalists, when they be kinksters or Christians, all have the same attitude about their approach. It is true, and my experience with Christian fundamentalist prepared to handle the kinkster fundamentalists.
tomio:
I think, primarily, it served as a brake on my sexual development. This would have been true even if I were sexually vanilla, though. The mixed messages – it’s bad and only bad people want/enjoy it, but it is good to share with your spouse – make it nearly impossible to have a healthy, functioning sense of sexuality.
I think there is a possible link between the view of a loving and suffering God, as evidenced by Jesus’ sacrifice, and my understanding of love as being expressed through suffering for my partner. I remember a Sunday School lesson that discussed the various forms of torture Jesus endured on his way to the cross (not to mention actually being crucified) and the message that he suffered because of his love for each individual in the room – it wasn’t just a global thing for humanity, but a very individual thing.
There is absolutely a link between the idea of a “good Christian” submitting their entire life to God and the complete surrender of power I have with Mistress Delila. Anything less than complete is simply a mockery. If I hold onto one tiny fraction of power; then I have not actually submitted at all.
I think this line of thinking lays me at odds with the kink fundies who like to claim that a submissive actually “holds all the power” in a D/s relationship. And I guess I tend to deal with them the same way I’ve come to deal with religious fundies…tell them they are wrong and then ignore them. When they try to force their beliefs on me, I tend to get rather aggressive about defending myself, because I know they will not be satisfied until they own every part of me.
My experience with religion also made me sensitive to the awesomeness of the mundane. For instance, the example of Jesus being born in a stable is often used to show how uncaring the world was/is. I see it as meaning that the incredible complexity of life in that stall shows how beautiful the world is…that the finest trappings of wealth and power simply cannot rise above the simple beauty of existence. That we exist is a thing of beauty (regardless of how one believes we got here). These incredible connections we describe as love are commonplace magic. The entire world can be found in the face of a child picking a dandelion. We are primarily spiritual beings caught for a time in a physical world…and for me, complete surrender allows me to transcend the mere physical bonds and unite with Mistress Delila on a purely spiritual level
Kink and religion (II): What do you see as the pros and cons of your religious background?
Welcome to the second of four parts of our interview/chat on kink and religion. To see the first part go here.
What do you see as the pros and cons of your religious background?
Delving into Deviance (a.k.a. Dev):
Emerging from my religious background was a slow process for me. I’ve only really acknowledged that I am no longer Christian in the past year or two. So I’ve been reviewing what I considered benefits and what would be easier if things had been different. Christianity still influences me. I’m eternally optimistic. I try to see the best in people, and love my neighbor as myself. I’ve tried to keep the good and let the bad go. Jesus’ teachings have a lot of wisdom in them even if the bible is often used to beat people over the head.
So pros:
1) my outlook on life and other people,
2) my acceptance that I’m not like everyone else and that’s not a bad thing, and
3) I think it’s actually made my sex life better.
The first I’ve explained already.
The second is interesting. As a fundamentalist Christian you are (or at least my congregation was) taught that you’re going to be different. Basically, if you are fitting in too much, you’re doing it wrong. So once I stuck out because I didn’t have sex or drink or swear, and now I stick out because I love talking about sex, won’t accept traditional gender roles, and just do things a bit differently than most people.
The third point is the most relevant. I had a vow of chastity. As I questioned Christianity and drifted away from it I forsook that vow, when I was 19, about the same time I started exploring BDSM. While that vow gave me some sexual hangups for awhile, I feel like it also helped me in some ways. As a teenager I didn’t have sex. My genitals were off-limits. However, I was very curious, so I would watch the Sunday Night Sex Show, Bliss, and other late-night television on Oxygen. That was a better sex-ed program than anything available in schools.
By the time I started having sex I knew much more about my own body and my lover’s than I would have at 16. I also had time to be more comfortable and confident about myself. Furthermore, I think it made me a better lover. I spent years at each ‘base’ before moving on to the next one – 3 years just kissing, 2 years kissing and fondling the upper body, 2 years on manual sex, 3 years on oral sex and BDSM, and then the big straight sex occurred. I orgasmed from pain before I orgasmed from a cock. I think that’s pretty cool.
So what about the cons?
Well, a lot of heartache. My boyfriend likened my relationship with God to feelings of romantic love. And indeed it was like that; God was my first love. The closer I felt to him, the more at peace I was with my life. But then I fell in love with a woman at the age of 15 and I didn’t know what to do. I tried to pray the gay away. No dice. Then I had to deal with the mind fuck that what I felt for my first girlfriend felt like being close to God. With her by my side, nothing could go wrong for too long. She was the most beautiful thing I’d ever experienced; how could that be against God’s will? Every Sunday I looked up bible verses about homosexuality as I sat in church. There are none about women, but the bible often says ‘men’ when it means everyone, so I thought that was a cop-out. For a few years I felt my life was coming apart at the seams. I didn’t know what to trust anymore.
At age 17 I’d decided to accept my bisexuality, and questioned everything else. I basically scrapped what I had been taught and started all over again. I think that’s what left me so open-minded. However, I did still have hang-ups sexually. I cried the first time I touched a cock and the first time I had oral sex. My logic could say one thing, but sometimes my emotions said another. I feel sorry for my first boyfriend in university. He was a really great guy and we spent a lot of time naked together, but he was still a virgin (no oral or penile-vaginal sex) when we were through six months later. My experience with him helped me decide that the whole chastity thing was silly.
Now I’m a very uninhibited lover, and the only remaining vestige of sexual guilt is that I stll have trouble with penile-vaginal sex with men I don’t love. I can have oral sex with whomever I like and it doesn’t phase me, but traditional man-woman sex was so associated with my future husband that it’s hard even now for me to treat it casually. Is that a bad thing? I’m not entirely sure. But it makes it difficult to realize my fantasy of having a line of men with hard-ons fuck me till I tire of them and say, “Next!”
Dishevelled Domina’s (a.k.a. DD) response to Dev:
I really identify with your comment that you are very uninhibited in general, and also that you mentioned some residual effects regarding intimacy reservations too.
It is an interesting combination; hard to understand, or explain.
Does the thought of multiples seriously appeal to you?
Dev’s response:
My lack of inhibition tends to be with a partner I trust. I’m still always a little nervous about having sex (particularly penetrative) with new people. I think this is partially because I don’t want to be perceived negatively, and until I know the other person a bit better I can’t know what they’re thinking.
The thought of multiples does indeed appeal to me. Given the above, I’m not sure they could be complete strangers. However, maybe I’ll eventually have enough friends/former/occasional lovers that it could be arranged with people I know and love. I feel like it would be a display of sexual empowerment and would bring me a great deal of pleasure. I’d be in charge the whole time.
tomio’s response to Dev:
“I used to have a vow of chastity.”
This stuff became a fad after I was an adult, thankfully. But chastity was simply expected, unless one was married. I think my congregation would have looked on it as being similar to taking a vow to breath air. The internet didn’t exist yet – most people still saw cable TV as a luxury. I do remember watching an actual rape scene in a movie on HBO and experienced one of my first erections (not THE first, but it was one of the first ten, I’d guess). I knew it was wrong to be turned on by such things and I actually answered the altar call that week and begged God not to send me to Hell for it. I think I was nine. Maybe ten.
On the other hand, it was the 1970s. Largely because the Supreme Court found that the movie Deep Throat was exploring a scientific and medical debate – whether or not women can have an orgasm. So while sex was still considered dirty and filthy and disgusting, there was also a sub-genre of preachers who actively taught that sex was a gift of God to be shared with your spouse…and proof that God wanted us to bond sexually was that women could have orgasms.
So, as I write this, I can see that in addition to the very badly mixed messages about sex, the only place I could even see a human body was in pornography. And I had to be VERY sneaky about finding that.
What do you see as the pros and cons of your religious background?
John:
DD’s response to John:
Experimentation or just trying to get into a girl’s pants? Mostly I think my own early experiences were driven by rebellion, followed by guilt.
In a word: Character. Evangelicals know how to stand up for what they believe is right. They know what they believe and they aren’t afraid to hurt a few feelings by being honest (and sometimes blunt, which is not the same thing).
I’d also have to list the belief that everyone is worthy of being loved. Even me. That’s a hard one to learn. In fact, at forty-three, I’m still learning how to be loved. How to feel like I’m lovable.
A third point: I know how to be forgiven. That is one of the hardest things a person can do. To go to another and say, “I hurt you and I didn’t have to and it breaks my heart that I can never take away that hurt.” Then to hear them say, “It broke my heart when you did that…but neither you nor I will remember that hurt, because it is totally erased from my heart.”
That’s rough. That’s a spiritual kick in the balls (or ovaries) that’ll bring anyone to their knees. Because we know, deep down, we don’t deserve that kind of forgiveness. But love gives it to us anyway. If we are strong enough to accept it.
The final point: I learned a passionate hatred for injustice, and especially for people who abuse their authority for their own benefit.
I was thirty-some-odd years old, in my second marriage, having fathered children, and I was so ridden with shame over my sexual needs – not desires, NEEDS – that I could not speak about them. Not to my wife (GOD NO!), not to a shrink, no one. So I simply shut down my sexuality. The problem is, someone forgot to tell my libido that…so I built this lonely fucking world where I spent hours every day (literally) looking at porn, masturbating, hating myself, repeat.
My evolution towards liberal Christianity means that I am simply not welcomed in the churches of my childhood friends and family. I’m cool with that, because they make no pretense of being open-minded and accepting. It’s all “my way or the highway” and I picked the highway a long time ago.
But it also puts me out of place with my liberal secular friends, who cannot understand why:
1) I arrive at the same place, or to the left of them, from such a vastly different route; and
2) why I cannot shut-up about my faith or leave it out of my discussions about politics and what is right/wrong.
I’m even more than a little out of place with my liberal Christian peers…I’ve come from too different a time and place to fully relate. That’s only partly the fault of fundamentalist religion…but it’s a part that continues to ache.
Submission, for me, is not just a kink. It is the way I am made, and when I submit to Mistress Delila, it is my supreme act of love. If the person I am and the love in my life are gifts of God; then accepting those things, embracing them, and being as completely and utterly submissive as I possibly can is not just an earthly thing, but a spiritual thing, as well. So disobeying Mistress would not just be a violation of Our commitments and the basic tenets of Our relationship and love…but it would be sinful.
A final, final point – Once I began to identify as a submissive man, I was actually able to come to terms with it through reinterpretation of scriptural examples. If we are supposed to emulate Jesus; then aren’t there many examples of him willfully lowering his station beneath those around him, and especially those he loved? “Greater love hath no man than this, to lay down his life for his friends.”
So if Jesus can live and die for the ones he loves, can I not also live and die for my Mistress and still be a good and Godly man?
DD’s response to tomio:
How do you distinguish between a need and a desire?
tomio’s response:
A desire is something a person wants, but does not suffer if it is denied to them – like ice cream.
A need is something that a person not only wants, but suffers if it is not given – like food, water, safety, shelter.
Sexually, in my case, I NEED a dominant partner…I genuinely suffer without one. I need, from time to time, to be hurt by my Lover. I need to be an object of desire and gratification.
I desire bondage. I desire orgasm denial.
From the outside, I’m sure these things look quite similar and are hard, if not impossible, to distinguish. From the inside, there is an immense difference.
What do you see as the pros and cons of your religious background?
Dishevelled Domina:
There are other experiences I could claim were cons of my background but every choice leads to the next and I cannot find it in my heart to disown the choices that have led me to the place I am today.
tomio’s response to DD:
“…like when I told my former pastor’s wife that the reason I didn’t attend a Baptist church anymore was because my pastor taught me better.”
I caused an entire adult Sunday School class to break out in spontaneous prayer when I refused to attend a Planned Parenthood picket, and insisted that Jesus would be INSIDE the place, praying for whoever needed service, and making sure their needs would be meet after they were done, whatever their choice was. Every single prayer during the service included some variation of the phrase, “Lord, be with those among us who cannot see the right and true path…” When the pastor wanted to talk to me after the service, I handed him the Bible and dared him to show me where the word “abortion” appeared. After half an hour of shooting down every tenuous connection he made, he sighed heavily and said, “I don’t think this congregation can serve your spiritual needs.” I laughed at him and said, “Funny, I don’t think it serves anyone’s spiritual needs. It’s just a political machine.”
I don’t know which upset my parents more; finding out I wasn’t a Republican, or finding out I wasn’t a Baptist.
Those are two separate things? (Hey! A question!)
There are several family members that I no longer speak to. I don’t really miss them.
DD’s response:
Stirring the pot is a hobby of mine, but I try not to get too carried away. I have more success with that nowadays, since I’m not being constantly provoked!
John’s response to DD and tomio:
I agree with tomio and have experienced the same thing..being prayed over because I don’t see the truth.
Best religious themed bumper sticker in my mind was the one that said:
Jesus was a liberal Jew.
Drives the conservatives I know batty when I mention that if you saw Jesus today you would automatically think he was a possible terrorist… dark skin, dark hair, and no halo.
Kink and religion interviews: What were your early experiences regarding religion and sexuality?
Dishevelled Domina, our fearless leader in this endeavor, Tomio, John and I have recently been discussing kink and religion via email in an interview/question/comment format. There were four questions, of which this is the first. I decided to take part in this discussion because religion is definitely something that has had a large impact on my life and hopefully it will open up a larger discussion in the comments both here and on Dishevelled Domina’s page (it is cross-posted).
What were your early experiences regarding religion and sexuality?
Delving into Deviance (a.k.a. Dev):
I was raised Southern Baptist. We weren’t actually affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention though, so it wasn’t as bad as it could have been. It wasn’t quite as strict as DD’s church. We could watch movies and wear pants. I went to church two or three times a week. Sunday service, youth group, and choir. For awhile church was just something I did, but when I was 12 I went on a youth retreat and was ‘saved’. After that I started taking everything much more seriously. I tried to let what I thought God wanted me to do influence every aspect of my life – what I ate, what I read, what I did. I went through a 40-day devotional book where I would spend an hour each day with God, and in order to make time for that and minimize negative influences on my life I gave up television and movies. I tried to convert my friends. I broke up with my boyfriend because I thought God was telling me to.
My religion definitely affected my sexuality growing up as well. I tried very hard not to have impure thoughts. I tried not to discuss sex with my friends. I was taught to avoid wearing provocative clothing in order to avoid inciting lust in men. I would usually just fantasize about kissing someone and nothing more as a preteen and young teenager. I would avoid situations in which I would be tempted to do more. However, sex was still seen as a beautiful thing; just a beautiful thing that was for a husband and wife. So sometimes I would roll around with a pillow imagining it was my future husband. I didn’t know I had a clitoris till I was 16. Around the same age, I started masturbating, but I didn’t want it to be masturbation. I didn’t want to have an orgasm because then it would actually be masturbating rather than ‘exploring my body’. As I grew older I started questioning what I’d been taught more, and started accepting my sexuality a little bit at a time. I was very curious about sex, but didn’t want to engage in it as a teenager, so I educated myself, but wouldn’t permit myself to experience anything too sexual. That education, which question 2 will discuss further, was a very sex-positive one. Kinky sex was presented as a normal part of an adult sexual repertoire, so when I did start experimenting sexually, I started experimenting with BDSM as well.
–Dev
Dishevelled Domina (a.k.a. DD):
I was raised in an Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Church (for the blissfully unaware, here is a taste; women ought not wear pants, tv and movies are always and only bad, and their expected role of women is…somewhat archaic). Between services and the Christian school I was at the church 6 days a week (sometime more) so they had lots of opportunities to tell me, “Yer doin’ it wrong.”
A consistent problem areas for me was being “ladylike.” I wasn’t. EVER. Especially by their definition. As a young tomboy I felt disenfranchised, which stood me in good stead as a teenager dealing with fundamentalist doctrine regarding sexualityand the bizarre tension in how women are regarded (the old Madonna/whore issue).
Thankfully, my parents were a little less crazy than most of the folks at their church. My mom was a bit of a feminist actually, and I am very glad of it. As a nurse she approached sexual education very medically and I was well informed, even about masturbation, and it not discouraged. I did not get any shame messages about sex at home, though they were very clear that sex was reserved for marriage.
When I got engaged my mom gave me a book about sex which was nowhere near as informative as another I received, but was miles ahead of anything her IFB contemporaries would have considered. I largely credit my mother’s open-mindedness for the fact I was able to start sorting out what I liked and wanted as early in life as I did (age 19).
-DD
John:
I can definitely relate to this:
This lead to many attempts to cleanse myself of impure thoughts none of which ever worked.
After many years of struggling I finally realized that the sexual desire is just a part of being human and there is nothing wrong with it.
Tomio:
Basically, Fundamentalism views sex as being, at best, a necessary evil. I would note that this is largely due to the writings of St. Paul, and not actually based on anything attributed to Jesus. As far as I’m aware, Jesus said absolutely nothing about sex (okay, he probably SAID a lot, but nothing is recorded).
Against the backdrop 0f the 1970s, Deep Throat ushered in what was called chic porn, followed by utter condemnation by Women’s Libbers, especially Andrea Dworkin. It was the height of the “ME Generation.” Disco music, key parties, cocaine was non-addictive, and not wearing a bra was a political statement (check out how tight the Bee Gees pants were…). Even Phil Donohue had shows about whether or not women could orgasm and exactly how is a man supposed to know if it happens…
NOTE: I was a kid – so I didn’t really DO this stuff, but the times were high-rollin’ and our preacher made sure he condemned each and every new fad – even sideburns. Herpes wasn’t even known, much less HIV.
The good thing about the independent Church of Christ (think Independent Baptist…but not so liberal as to allow musical instruments in the church) is that they are INDEPENDENT. So where one congregation is so tight they squeak, another isn’t. So the congregation I spent most of my childhood in was very strict, but when I was in sixth grade, we moved and found a more liberal one – where the very young pastor talked about sex as a gift of God to let man and woman experience just a tiny bit of Heaven, of spiritual togetherness. I even found a book in the church library that had a drawing of a vagina with arrows and circles pointing out what each “structure” was.
On the other hand, that church also lobbied the city council to pass a law forbidding the sale of pornography (which included Playboy magazine, but not Playgirl…figure that one out). They sat up a camera to take pictures of people going in and out of the one adult bookstore in town, specifically to harass the customers. And while I can’t actually say one of them burned down the only adult theater (which was, oddly, a drive in), I know that they greeted it with glee.
At one point, it crossed my mind that maybe the problem with porn was that the people in the movies were not married…That question caused a lot of nervous laughter and rubbing at the back of men’s necks. But no answer. I was considered a bit “throwed off,” as the saying goes.
There are a ton of further mixed messages about sex in my childhood, but most of them diverge wildly from the topic at hand. I’ll refrain from chasing the rabbit trails and leave it at this.
– tomio
DD’s response to tomio ~
You know why Playgirl was ok? Because all good church folk know that MEN are the ones who look with lust! We women just entice and incite, we don’t actually want to look at naked men! (HAH!)
Sad news
FT and I broke up. It was rather unexpected. We had a wonderful month together, I’d been back for a couple of weeks, I started to see a new guy and it made FT jealous. I thought it was just a normal bout of jealousy, the kind that happens in all poly relationships every once and awhile, but it wasn’t. He gave me an ultimatum – new guy or him. A very tearful discussion led to me deciding to part ways. I love FT. I always will. However, it was uncertain whether we would be able to live in the same country even in a year’s time, and the situation just made me feel trapped. FT realized that he couldn’t bear being there (not literally, but figuratively) with me while I’m with another male sub and I wasn’t prepared to not be able to see any other male subs. I haven’t really wanted to sub to anyone since I was 19 (so male doms are kind of out) and it’s really hard to meet a woman who is compatible with me and poly, particularly in this city.
So I’m bummed. I didn’t want this relationship to end. However, I think it’s probably the best thing for us at the moment; even for him. He keeps giving up everything to be with me a month at a time, and while I really appreciate that and it’s incredibly romantic, he needs to do what’s best for him too. However, I’m still applying to life opportunities near him, and if our paths cross I’m open to being reunited. We had a really good thing and I miss him terribly already. Long distance sucks.
I’m not sure what will happen in this space in the next few months. I want to keep blogging, but he has always been an integral part of this. Deeply Deviant is going to turn into a more traditional, not so many of my pictures, tumblr. I’m planning on continuing this blog with more theoretical issues addressed and less personal anecdotes for the time being. Currently there is a series of interviews on religion and kink that I’ve been working on with Dishevelled Domina that will soon come to fruition.
