Good, Giving, Game…and Dominant

Some of the comments on my previous entry inspired me to write this one. Tab remarked:

I completely agree on your point about being a Dom just being the leader, and that acts do not make the Dom. I’m a male dominant who enjoys being fucked, even by women. Most people who know this about me find it confusing, especially in the BDSM community.

Maybe one day we’ll get over this idea that fucking means in charge.

Femdom is very weird for me, as it seems most femdom stuff is still geared to be pleasing to the men. It’s rare you see a woman dominating to get what she wants out of something, it’s just fulfilling another male fantasy.

I know a couple where the male sub likes to be used as furniture and completely ignored by the woman. The woman does it, but actually finds it a bit boring. It’s always confused me, because surely if he’s a sub then that means he should want what SHE wants to do to him? Not this fucked up idea of how she’s supposed to treat him, just how he can please her.

When I read this I didn’t see anything particularly offensive about it, and liked hearing that a male dominant was embracing his love of being fucked. However, maymay brought this issue up:

I do want to point out that submission does not mean “he should want what SHE wants to do to him.” That may be a piece it for some people some of the time, but no one needs to make the mistake of believing submission is about sublimating a submissive person’s desires in favor of a dominant person’s, because then you’ve still just stolen the submissive person’s agency (regardless of their gender) by devaluing what they want and makes you more than a little bit of a stereotypical douche dom, and I won’t let anyone even remotely come close to doing that on a post that’s this good, like this one, without calling it out.

Tab then clarified what I assumed to be the case in the beginning:

You make a very good point, and I’m sorry if I came across that way. My story is a little close to home as I know the female partner really didn’t enjoy it, and being her friend I am very biased in her favour.

I personally find BDSM a time where both of you are trying to fulfil each others fantasies, so to have any sex where one person is uncomfortable is something I find distasteful. I get off on want- If someone doesn’t want me to do something or doesn’t want to do it to me I’m completely uninterested. I’m not in favour of sublimating a submissive person’s desire in favour of a doms, I’m in favour of everyone getting what they want, but never at the expense of the other person.

These comments bring up the important issue of how much a Dominant should be expected to respect the desires of their submissive. I am of the opinion that the submissive should not run the show, and this can easily become an issue between a female Dominant and male submissive because of the way the sexes are typically socialized. Dishevelled Domina expresses this sentiment well in her post, Power Exchange:

Guys, if your wife/girlfriend/roommate/landlady/boss/secretary/nurse/teacher, etc. etc. etc. is not dominating you the way you’ve seen it done in all those delightfully realistic porn movies, and then, one glorious day, you manage to talk her into dousing herself in baby powder and fighting her way into a tube of latex, or some other equally hideous getup that you’ve been fantasizing about, and then you have her spank you, assfuck you, and generally get you off exactly the way you pictured it, well,  ya know what?

You have all the power, and you are running the fuck. She is not dominating you.

If the supposed dominant is just doing everything that the supposed submissive wants and nothing more, I have trouble seeing how that could be considered domination. However, I do not think that we should then go to the other extreme and say that Dominants should not listen to their partners at all and should take no interest in their sexual fantasies and desires. In short, I think that one can be good, giving and game (GGG)…and still be Dominant. The concept of GGG was devised and popularized by Dan Savage who I highly recommend to any of my readers. As he summarizes,

GGG stands for “good, giving, and game,” which is what we should all strive to be for our sex partners. Think “good in bed,” “giving equal time and equal pleasure,” and “game for anything—within reason.”

Being Dominant doesn’t give you a get-out-of-GGG-free card. Let’s take anal sex as a personal example. My boyfriend loves penetrating women anally. When we got together, I had never experienced this before. My condition for previous, more vanilla, boyfriends had always been, “when you bend over and take something up your ass, I’ll be much more inclined to reciprocate”. This was not an empty statement in hopes to dissuade them from exploring my anus. I’ve wanted to fuck a guy up the ass since I was 18, and still a chastity-ring-wearing virgin. My fuck toy was more than willing to let me penetrate him once we became involved, and thus, I began considering returning the favor. We soon began experimenting with anal toys. At first it didn’t really do much for me, but was an interesting sensation that I was willing to keep on exploring for a bit. Then he put what I have dubbed ‘the Princess’ (see below) in me, and I started to see the light.

This toy was the beginning of my anal pleasure. With it, I discovered that I can   have g-spot orgasms through my ass; they are the most intense orgasms I’ve ever had. If I had let stubborn pride get in the way of sexual exploration, I would never have discovered this about myself. If I had felt like I couldn’t explore my submissive’s sexual interests just because they’re his, then I would have caused us both to miss out on experiences that increase our intimacy and bond. My sub now fucks me anally at my command. Luckily, his cock is just as good at stimulating my g-spot as this lovely toy. Being GGG pays off for everyone involved. However, if, after giving it a fair try (not just once), I was still not enjoying anal in the slightest, and found it painful and uncomfortable regardless of the implement used, then I would also have the right to cease doing that.

The next question is: would I have to stop fucking my sub up the ass if he really didn’t like it? Do I think that a submissive person’s desires should not be sublimated in favor of  Dom(me)’s? This is the trickier question in my mind. I enjoy my sub’s pain. I enjoy his distress. Furthermore, he enjoys it when I force him to do things that he does not enjoy. This gets into a rather confusing territory! Maymay does a good job of explaining this phenomena from the sub’s side.

I have raped FT before. This rape was consensual, but still not the same as the rape-play most people discuss where one person pretends not to want it while in reality they’re gagging for it. I have blanket consent to take FT when I want, where I want, and how I want, regardless of his desires in that moment. One day, I climbed on top of him and he asked me if he could go out for a cigarette. I said no. He said, “I’m seriously not in the mood, please let me go out for a cigarette”. I forced him down, sucked on his cock until it was hard enough for me to fuck, and then rode him until I was satisfied. He was a bit angry for a day or two, but in retrospect is hugely aroused  by this event (and secretly hopes it will happen again at some point). I don’t do this often, and would usually prefer that he want to do what I want to do. However, sometimes I just have an overwhelming urge to fuck him, will he, nil he, and then I plow forward. He consents to this, but will not always like it in the moment. It’s hard to make these kinds of judgements though. There’s a fine line between pushing just enough and pushing too far.

In conclusion, I think that both partners need to be GGG, but due to the nature of the relationship, the submissive will often be expected to be somewhat more GGG than the Dominant. In reality though, that statement is troublesome. The Dominant is fulfilling the submissive’s sexual desires by sublimating the submissive’s desires under the Dominant’s. FT gets off on doing whatever I want sexually even if he isn’t enjoying it in that moment. I shall call this the submissive paradox. Does it make him any less submissive because he’s getting his desires fulfilled in this way? No. It makes it a non-abusive relationship. Dom(me)s and subs exist symbiotically. They have different, but compatible, needs and wants that are fulfilled by each other. When this relationship ceases to be symbiotic – the Dom(me) stops listening to the sub altogether or the sub tries to have their way all the time – the balance is broken and the relationship ceases to be D/s.

Posted on June 7, 2011, in D/s Relationships, Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 5 Comments.

  1. dishevelleddomina

    This can get so complex because of that kink so many subguys have about it being hot to be “forced” to do something they really don’t want to do, which is so hot.
    Like you, I’d typically prefer that whatever I want to do is banging on all cyclinders but then, I too have been told not to pay attention to certain protests, and if it weren’t for my having ignored some half-hearted protests the first time I tied my husband up, we certainly wouldn’t be enjoying what we do now.

    My honey gets off on doing what I want to do, even if it isn’t really what he wants to do (at least on one level) because it turns him on to do it because I want it, which is very sex, but I wouldn’t like that to be the primary mode of our interactions.

    I, on the other hand, don’t get off on doing things I don’t want to do. Just don’t. He is tuned in enough that he can tell that, and therefore it isn’t a turn on to him (additionally, he is actually more invested in playing in ways that turn me on then making real his fantasies if they don’t actively get me off).

    I only play these sorts of games where I am known, well-known, inside and out and I have that knowledge of him. We discuss what we do, and what we want, and we implicitly trust each other.
    I’ve never used Savage’s GGG catch phrase to describe how we interact, but it does seem apt.

    I got into a little internet debate with a subbish guy over the difference between domming to suit a guy (role playing, in my opinion) and actual dominating. Doing whichever works for people is great, but if a gal is domming a guy because it is what he wants, and doing it the way he wants, he is running that show. In a way, she is submitting to him even while he is fulfilling his submissive fantasies with her. I think it is important to acknowledge that difference.
    If it isn’t acknowledged as role playing then it seems very much like topping from below. Having a guy be furniture because he wants it, even though it is not a turn on for the dominant woman, that is not domming him, it is giving him exactly what he wants because it is what he wants and she is operating as an agent of his volition. Good fun if they are both enjoying, but problematic if only the one person is, particularly if that one person would like to delude himself into thinking he is submissive in the situation.
    I find this especially bothersome on a personal level because that is furthering the misconception that dominant woman really only exist to fulfil the kinks of men. It is far less about a woman’s own volition and sexuality, and is really about a man having a puppet that can be manipulated into performing to his specifications.

    The other disengagement of a healthy dynamic would be what you’ve concluded with, domination that oversteps into abuse.
    It is sometimes important to me that that at some point after we play that we discuss what I did to him, and how he feels about it. It can really, deeply bother me if I feel I’ve overstepped, or gotten close to, our line in the sand. It is invaluable for me to hear him say, “I love it. I didn’t want it in that moment, but in another way I did, and I am so glad you did it.” Confessions like that sooth the soul of this sadist.
    So, the point of this incredibly long comment would be that I wanted to tell you,

    “Well said, I agree.”

    • Yeah, my boyfriend also doesn’t enjoy things he knows I’m not actively enjoying. In preparing this blog entry I was talking to him about the human furniture thing. I was saying that if it was a bit boring for me but really interested him I might use it as a form of reward. However, he was saying that he wouldn’t really find it rewarding because he gets most of his pleasure from my pleasure.

      While that is awesome, I don’t think it should keep a dom(me) from trying new things that her sub has brought up. If it turns out not to work then that’s fine, but I think it would be a shame to rule out ways to surprise yourself.

    • I just discovered your blog, via sexisnottheenemey at tumblr. I love what you have to say! I’ve been referencing it all day today.

      Recently I’ve been going on and on about top/bottom and how it’s a slightly different axis than dom/sub. My “home forum” often gets these new posts: “I’ve JUST discovered I’m a domme and my boyfriend asks me to tie him up and spank him– and I love it!” and other posters will say “Oh sorry, you’re not a bona fide Domme, and he’s domming from the bottom.” and the woman will be crushed and deflated… And I’ll say; “You are, however, a bona fide TOP, with a bona fide bottom partner. And that’s something you can be proud of too.”

      In my sexual relationships, I’m a dominant when I bottom. That’s just the way that’s made me happiest in a long time of experimentation. And I’m service oriented when I top– but I don’t know if I’m especially submissive about it…

  2. dishevelleddomina

    Closed mindedness is never the best approach to anything. I sort of assume people will discuss and try new things because it seems to me that it is the sensible and healthy way to behave. Of course, that is not the underlying assumption most people actually operate on.
    A fair number of the things that are standard parts of our repertoire now were his suggestions that we tried and liked. If I don’t really enjoy it, it is unlikely to make the cut because he can tell and he doesn’t enjoy it if I am not enjoying it.
    Conversely, those things that I like to force on him are things that he finds hot to have forced on him, but the stuff that he finds boring, distasteful, or whatever , those are rarely going to be things I get a lot of pleasure out of either.
    It’s an energy loop.

  3. great description of this an energy loop DisheviledDomina……that’s the way i have always felt about both play and the F/m relationship WHEN things are working well….

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